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I removed a link to the article about George Bush from the "see also" section. Funny, but not appropriate for an encyclopedia.--70.157.7.2 12:37, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Deleted ENTIRE reference to casualties of Iraqis in War, that has no business being placed in demographics of murder. Geez. 209.115.232.65 22:27, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Finland
On the other hand, causing death by jumping on a person's chest and head and firing over 10 times upon a person's torso have been considered to fulfill the standard.Is this a joke, or an actual case ? If it's the latter, I suppose we need a source.
FiP Как вы думаете? 10:03, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Exclamation! Points!
Is! There! A! Reason! For! All! of! These!? -- this unsigned comment added by User:81.132.156.119 at 01:10, 25 September 2006
Average Sentence?
What is the average or median sentence for murder in the US and time served?
Expanding the U.S. section
State-by state information is needed, plus more info on different degrees of murder. If it's too cumbersome to add state-by-state information within this page (which'd make sense, given the complexity of these laws and the amount of variance), a new page should be created. Also, "Third-degree murder" redirects here, but there's no information on it, nor is there any on the "Felony murder" page. Expanding wikipedia's coverage to a point where it is sufficient may take time, but will be worthwhile. Bobby P. Smith Sr. Jr. 12:16, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
Infanticide
Also, in some European countries, it is not murder if a mother kills her child, provided that the child is less than 356 days old. AND - The mother has been found to have soem disturbance of mind resulting from the effects of childbirth. Thus the element of mental disturbance (e.g. post-partum depression, or psychoses) is essential, although in practice such evidence can be minimal, if non-existant. JN
Perhaps you would like to tell us which European country this is. I'd like to know. -- Derek Ross
This makes it sound like the mother gets off scot free:
A mother is certainly not ALLOWED to kill her child in the UK, simply because it is aged less than one year! However she is treated more leniently if it can be proven she has disturbance of mind ...........JN
I know for a fact in the UK and Australia that's not the case -- the mother might be found guilty of a lesser crime than murder, with lesser penalties, but she'd still be convicted of SOMETHING. -- An.
At least that is more accurate ....JN
The anon above is correct this is simply incorrect for the UK and Australia, I don't know about other countries, so i've moved the para to here.
http://www.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopel082801.shtml This is from there - it seems that this part is correct
I don't think so Mr.Mintguy...... This is actually the most accurate thing I have read on the whole page!!!! JN
Well then clarify - there is a relevant exception for mothers, that is clear from both articles i quoted (the other is from bbc - see other talk page).
There is no exception for mothers in the UK. The BBC is wrong or, more likely, over-simplifying reported cases. Post-natal depression (as we call it) may be a mitigating factor in sentencing (see R v Isaac ) or may form the basis for a defence of provocation (see R v Smith ). The relevant extract in R v Smith is: "A woman suffering from post-natal depression may kill on trivial provocation or none at all. If the provocation is insufficient to cause a person of ordinary self-control to act as she did, then her actions are attributable to her depressive illness and not to the provocation.". I'll amend the page. Bob 22:34, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
This not should be allowed to happen in any country because it is wrong.
NPOV
Murder#United_Kingdom:
No source. Looks like somebody's opinion to me. 82.27.48.57 23:05, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Terrorism
Is killing done by a terrorist murder? A couple of example questions.
- John Allen Muhammed and Lee Boyd Malvo shot a number of people in the area of Washington DC. At the time and since, their actions have been referred to "terrorizing the city". Are they murderers, terrorists or both?
- Is a suicide bomber that kills people other than himself a murderer?
The news broadcasts these days seem to rarely use the word "murder" and its derivates in referring to a wide variety of acts, preferring to use "kill" or even the passive voice "xxx people were killed as a result of ...."
Guidance please OneVoice 04:26, 15 Jan 2004 (UTC)
"Yes" to both Y/N questions, and "both" to the other. It's important not to confuse journalism with law.
It's also worth noting that the press did get it right to a certain extent in mentioning terrorization: in one of the jurisdictions, that is an aggravating circumstance, and sufficient to put the death penalty on the table.
Should discuss "necessity" in this context. --Daniel C. Boyer 17:54, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Felony murder statutes
I have heard two different versions of the concept:
- There is no felony murder without a death that would be a murder by someone, even in the absence of the shared felony. That is, working in concert to commit the felony simply makes the murder "contagious" to all the conspirators.
- "If you run down a drunk during the getaway, that's a murder." That has at several interpretations, corresponding to these specific examples:
- You don't even have a gun, but pretend to; the cop in the lobby follows you out, draws his gun and yells "Stop, Police!" You get flustered and turn toward him without raising your hands; he shoots, killing a bystander; you faint dead away. Are you liable for felony murder of the bystander?
- I would believe yes. knoodelhed 11:38, 17 May 2004 (UTC)
- No felony murder here. What's the predicate felony? Pretending to have a gun? Maybe depraved heart murder.
- Does it make a difference if it was one of your partners the cop kills?
- I would not think so. knoodelhed 11:38, 17 May 2004 (UTC)
- Some states will cut off felony murder if killing is justified, i.e. the cop has justification defense for shooting confederate. Might be depraved heart murder if confederates incited the shootout.
- Nobody gets shot, and the getaway car is proceeding at the normal pace of traffic, blending in with the citizenry; as soon as the drunk staggers into sight from behind the truck parked in the middle of the block, you slam on the brakes, but he's too close and you run him over.
- Felony murder ends as soon as the criminals are in a place of relative safety. If the "chase" is considered over then no FM.
- If there's a quick response to the accident, AND a timely report of the robbery over the radio, AND the cops put 2+2 together and perform a search of the vehicle (incidental to the accident investigation) this would be a likely scenario for a FM prosecution to occur. knoodelhed 11:38, 17 May 2004 (UTC)
- This shouldn't have anything to do with it.
- Same situation, but the drunk dies bcz you're driving fast enought that it would be negligent homicide, but, in the absence of the robbery, it would not be murder (no "depraved indifference to human life").
- Reckless driving + conscious awareness of the risk + depraved indifference to human life = depraved heart murder
- Same as previous. knoodelhed 11:38, 17 May 2004 (UTC)
Which of these are felony murders, if any? --Jerzy(t) 23:12, 2004 Apr 14 (UTC)
The United States
I've removed the following, which would be good info in an article on American attitudes toward crime:
In this article, it's just floating loose, and thus only a distraction.
I believe in the UK the first paragraph is not correct. I believe that to prove murder you do not have to prove "intention to murder" but that, for example, to kill whilst acting intending to cause GBH (when the death was a foreseeable risk) is murder. I believe it is well established for example that where someone is coshed but dies because of a thin skull this is murder. However, I am not basing this on being a legal expert, just on the way the judge explained it to us when I did jury service recently--(talk)BozMo 15:16, 12 May 2004 (UTC)
The second sentence under U.S. Punishment for Murder appears incorrectly written. Currently, it states, "However, due to overcrowding of the American prison system ... murderers serve only 7 years of real time." Shouldn't it read, "an average of 7 years"? The way it's written now make it seem that all murderers, as opposed to the average murderer, serve 7 years, which is clearly not factual. Does anyone have a citation that would confirm that 7 years is the average? - Walkiped 02:08, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
---
The section on U.S. murder is completely erroneous. Voluntary manslaughter and second degree murder are not the same. Also third degree murder and involuntary manslaughter are not the same. Whoever wrote this would not pass first year criminal law.
---I deleted the following sentence:
"If a person tried to kill another but failed he or she is guilty of attempted murder."
This
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